Ep36: Building Resilience at Work and Beyond with Felicity Ashley
What does it really mean to be human at work—and how can finding your courage, overcoming adversity, and embracing your unique strengths transform your personal and professional life?
In this insightful episode, marketing leader turned Atlantic rower and cancer survivor Felicity Ashley shares her extraordinary journey from boardrooms to battling storms at sea and facing cancer head-on. Discover how Felicity’s “midlife awakening” propelled her across the Atlantic with a crew of moms and how the lessons in resilience, mindset, and purpose she gained continue to shape her work as a motivational speaker.
We dive deep into the power of authentic leadership, why bringing your whole self matters, and how reframing your limiting beliefs can unlock new possibilities—both for you and your team. Felicity and host Helen reveal practical strategies to tap into your superpower, build genuine workplace connections, and cultivate a culture where performance and wellbeing go hand in hand.
Packed with inspiring stories and actionable tips, this conversation is for anyone looking to thrive in business, overcome setbacks, and find meaning in what you do. Tune in for a masterclass on resilience, self-leadership, and making the workplace truly human wise.
Topics Discussed:
Building resilience in challenging times
Human-centered leadership in business
Overcoming limiting beliefs at work
Role of mindset in achieving goals
Importance of support networks
Timestamps:
00:00 Cancer Challenge After Endurance Triumph
03:41 Resilience and Passion Post-Challenges
08:42 Integrating Coaching and Business Performance
12:16 Inspired by Ocean Rowing Adventure
14:10 Inspiring Example for Children
20:09 "Internalizing Society's Perceptions"
22:04 Emotional Projection as Decision Tool
25:43 Evolving Purpose Through Life Events
28:57 "Own Your Career Decisions"
30:44 "Leadership: Embrace Employee Growth"
37:09 Empathy in Leadership and Support
39:32 "Bring Your True Self"
41:10 "Felicity Ashley's Online Presence"
Read Blog here
About Felicity Ashley
Follow @felicityashley on LinkedIn
Subscribe to @MotherMotivatorMarinerMarketer on Youtube
The common thread that runs through her professional and personal experiences and that has enabled her to repeatedly overcome challenges and adversity is a positive mindset – a willingness to open herself to opportunity and turn negatives into positives. She shares her unique and inspiring experience with her audiences with candour and humility, and speaks about mindset over matter – showing how a positive mindset is key to thriving through challenge, change and adversity.
Bringing her familiarity with organisational challenges and her personal experiences together, she works with organisations, leaders and teams to support them through transformational journeys. Through a variety of in person and virtual formats, including keynotes, workshops and Q&As, she relates her experience to their challenges – from organisational restructuring and setting ambitious strategic goals, to creating inclusive, high performing teams and reducing burnout through promoting a more healthy and sustainable work-life balance.
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Ep. 36 - Building Resilience at Work and Beyond with Felicity Ashley Human Wise Podcast
[00:00:00]
Introduction and Guest Welcome
Helen Wada: Hello and welcome to another episode of Human Wise. I'm absolutely delighted to have Felicity Ashley with me today. Felicity is an absolutely remarkable woman that I met last year through a, a community group business in the community group where I really saw the resilience, the passion, and what an extraordinary woman, Felicity is.
Her stories of resilience, her stories of working in business for over 20 years as a marketing leader really resonated with me and actually her wisdom about being human at work and what it really takes to keep moving when sometimes things don't quite go your way. And setting challenges for yourself to see what you might do and where you can get to if you really focus and pursue your passion and your dreams.
So, welcome, Felicity. Absolutely delighted to have you on the show, and no doubt you'll be able to tell us a little bit more about who.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, thanks for having me, Helen. [00:01:00]
Felicity's Career and Midlife Adventure
Felicity Ashley: so I am Felicity Ashley. I worked in La Mar marketing leadership roles for over 20 years. That's the kind of backbone of my career. And then towards the end of that time, I took on what some people might call a midlife crisis. I prefer to see it more as a midlife a. And I decided to row across the Atlantic as part of a crew of four working moms. One of the other moms was my sister and then two other girls. And so that was 3000 mile trip from the Canaries to Antigua. It's an unsupported row, so everything we needed for that row was on the boat itself. and that was an incredible experience.
Life changing, life affirming. Just the most incredible privilege to be able to take two months outta life and do that. It was 40 days from start to finish, plus a bit of time at the beginning to get ready and a bit of time at the end.
Facing Cancer and Finding Resilience
Felicity Ashley: and I finished the row and came back home full, you know, on top of the world was very quickly thrown, head [00:02:00] long into the next challenge, which was a challenge I didn't choose, but it was the challenge of a cancer diagnosis.
So I was just a few weeks after the row I was diagnosed with stage three bowel cancer. Now I know that's not an unusual diagnosis necessarily, but in the context of just having completed one of the world's toughest endurance events, it came as quite a shock. and so it was really then about how, how, you know, I tackle that challenge as a mom of three small children, working mother. And really I suppose what helped me through was the approach that I took for the row is something that I just lifted and dropped into this next challenge. It was about mindset, keeping positive, being resilient and about harnessing the power of the support network around me. and so I got through my cancer treatment and then went back to work and there was a kind of period of uncertainty at work and that was really the catalyst to doing something very different.
Transition to Professional Speaking
Felicity Ashley: I stepped back from my corporate role and thought about what next [00:03:00] and what next led me into speaking. So I'm now a professional speaker I suppose, all of my experience, both my corporate background, but also my more recent lived experiences to work with organizations, leaders and teams to help motivate and inspire them through whatever change or challenges they. Having worked in the business world for a long time, I understand lots of the different challenges that face, you know, people in the business world. It's constantly changing and I think my personal experience can really help a different light, perhaps a different perspective on how to navigate some of those changes.
So that brings me up to date.
Helen Wada: it's in, it's incredible really. And, you know, thank you for, for sharing that story so openly and, and you know, it's just wonderful to see you here energized, you know, really pursuing your passions and having got through that because. You know, I've had similar experiences, not quite as much, but actually, [00:04:00] you know, when you are in it and when you are faced with something like that, that's where you find the powers of resilience, the powers of focus that maybe you didn't even know that you had.
And so, you know, delighted to see that you, you've got through the other side and, and thriving in, in your role and, and giving back to the business world.
You are right.
Being Human at Work
Helen Wada: You know, we talk about the business world, being human wise is all about, you know, the wisdom of what it means to be human at work. And I'm just curious to maybe start from there and then we can draw on some of your experiences because, you know, you said having done the row, having beaten the bowel cancer, you looked back into the corporate world and, and had a different perspective.
And I guess, you know, I'm curious to understand. About being human at work and what [00:05:00] perspective.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah. I think in many ways it's about looking beyond the person that you see in the day-to-day working office environment and looking at the whole person. So everything that's going on outside of their working lives, if you like, that has such a massive impact on the person that they are at work. And I think sometimes we can be quite tunneled visioned in the workplace or in the business world. what you see is the person that's standing in front of you and the kind of the results that they're delivering or the work that they're, they're doing, but you don't necessarily see everything else that's going on around. there is so much life experience that can add tremendous value to the workplace that I think is completely overlooked a lot. And I think there's a tendency at work when there's so much to get done all the time, you know, a never, never ending to-do list we just get through what we need to get through at work without looking, you know, the wider, at the wider environment and what we can [00:06:00] bring in to benefit it. And we don't take the time to be human and be normal real people and take the time to really understand each other. And I think being human first for me is just about treating people as you would expect to be treated yourselves. You know, treating people as names, not numbers, them in their wider environment. And it's just about, you know, some of the basics about, you know, showing that you care, you value, you respect, and you understand the people that you are working with. And then, you know, generally speaking, you re you reap what you sow, you know, it will come back to you and, and if you can be like that at work, whether you're leading teams or whether you're part of a team, then you will find that other people around you, behave in the same way.
Helen Wada: I think you know, it is so true and many of the other. Other guests have said similar on this in terms of, you know, it's about taking the time.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: This is not something that happens quickly, but I'm curious, [00:07:00] you know, you were in the business world, 25, 20 years leading global teams. You saw the commercial demands that that were put onto, you know, both teams and individuals.
What is it that you think gets in the way of this humanity at work? I still sense in the conversations that I'm having, that there's still this push pull. We talk about, yes, what it is to be human at work, but still at the coalface we we're not always living by what we, what we say.
Felicity Ashley: I think some, some of it comes down to the way that, you know, objectives assess or people are targeted. So it's all about the numbers and it's driving for those numbers. And that's the measure of success. And I think that comes at the expense of some of the softer measures. And, you know, a business's performance is, is then [00:08:00] reflected, reflected down the chain, if you like. And it's what's the, what's the highest priority for a business? And often that is the performance. But I think what gets overlooked is the thing that drives the performance is the wellbeing of each individual and how those teams perform together. And if we are not. Looking after the wellbeing, which is all around being human and kind of, you know, caring for each other, then that's not gonna drive the highest performance. But it's one of those things that's really, I think, quite hard to measure. And when people have to make quick decisions all the time, it's the thing that kind of, you know, falls off the side of the desk.
Helen Wada: It's interesting, isn't it? Because this is where I get with the human advantage and, and the coaching work that we do. Knitting the two together, because you're right, this commercial performance is not gonna go away. You know, the needs for the numbers. You know, we are operating in a world in which that we live in, right?
And even if it's a, a charity or a [00:09:00] public body, actually money does make the world go round. And if we don't have the investment, we can't invest in the care or the, the business that we need to keep going and, and do the good work that we need to do. So we can't ignore the numbers. But what I saw, and this was coming from the role that I had in sales ultimately, was that the skills that you need to make better decisions in, in business to have better conversations with potential customers, to grow your revenue and top line through interacting with, with new, new clients, challenging them in terms of where their thinking is at.
Those are some of the same skills that need. Actually that as a coach. And so when you look at it together, the two, the two never really meet, but actually if you dig under the skin of what it is, you need to have effective meetings to be [00:10:00] focused on the individuals, to be focused on your teams, to be focused on your clients, to run meetings in effective ways.
Those are the same skills that we use as a coach. It's about creating that container of trust. It's about being able to challenge people. It's about pushing back and saying no. And so for me, I, I honestly believe that there's a golden thread where we can look at these together that says we don't have to do one or the other.
We actually can be more human centered, but with a commercial focus, we just have to have the mic mindset to go in to these conversations.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one unlocks the other. You know, it's almost like you need to be human focused to actually unlock that higher performance. And I think what's really interesting is that people are starting to draw that link and that commercial link as well between the two. I saw a, a report fairly recently.
It was McKinsey and an [00:11:00] Oxford Institute report, which, which assigned you know, financial gain to to looking after the wellbeing of, of employees in terms of things like lost, you know, day, days off work and what that equates to, into lost revenue. I mean, not just days off work, but, but lower productivity while you're at work because you're struggling in, in some way short shape or form.
And that the biggest driver was actually toxic workplace behaviors in terms of bringing down performance. and that's all about, you know, inclusivity and treating people like human beings, not numbers. So that, you know, there's definitely that commercial link, but I think we need more awareness of that commercial link between, between the two for, you know, the human factor to be really taken seriously.
Helen Wada: Yeah, and, and it is that human factor. It's. What, what do we do outside of work that makes us more productive and more focused inside of work?
The Atlantic Rowing Challenge
Helen Wada: I mean, the, the row that you did across the Atlantic, goodness, I can't begin to imagine where the lessons were from that. [00:12:00] But tell us a little bit more about how, how you got into that, what drove you to, to do that, you know, set the challenge for yourself and then, you know, the learnings that you had along the way.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, well, the background too. It was actually my brother-in-law who did the row years before we did it. And when I remember hearing his, him, him, you know, talking about it for the first time and thinking he was absolutely mad, I just thought, why would you want to put yourself in a tiny little bow in massive waves, you know, at, at what seemed to me to be great risk. I just couldn't understand why anyone would want to do that, and the thought of those waves terrified me. was only really when I started watching his race unfold and following all of their updates on social media, and then particularly when I watched his finish, his race finish. And I remember watching on my iPad, sat at, sat in my bed, and feeling a shiver run down my spine as I kind of saw this little boat emerge from the darkness and the [00:13:00] beaming faces of the crew as they crossed the finishing line. And at that point I thought, wow, if I feel this excited sat in my bed thousands of miles away, what must it be like to be in that boat and achieve something that so few people in the world have ever done? to put it into context, more people have been to space than have road an ocean. And from a female perspective, when we did it, fewer than 250 women had ever rode an ocean.
So it was really, you know, doing something fairly extraordinary. And I suppose that was, that really planted the seed and I thought I'd love to do it one day. I'd love to know what that feels like, but rationalizing it alongside my kind of family life. At the time I had children who were two, four, and six and I thought, well, can't do it.
Can't do it now. They're too young. But maybe, you know, five or 10 years when I'm not so old that I can't do it. But the kids are older and more independent. And then a couple of weeks later when my sister called me, she, she said. And it was almost like, you know, I'm a strong believer that you have to seize the opportunities when they[00:14:00]
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Felicity Ashley: Dunno when the next opportunity's coming. And I knew instantly that I was gonna say yes. You know, there were obviously decisions to be made with my husband Paul, and some of the logistical things, but it was something that I, you know, in my gut I wanted to do. And I just thought, what an opportunity, you know, what an opportunity to do something so extraordinary, but also what an opportunity to set such an inspiring example for my children. There was that conflict, and this is something that, you know, I talk about around Inter International Women's Day around what are other people gonna think of me as a mom of young children leaving them over Christmas and New Year? 'cause it was over, over that winter period. are people gonna think of me?
Are they gonna judge me? You know, as, as being a bad mom for going away and doing that. But the thing that got me over that fear almost was the example that was setting for them. Showing them that anyone can do anything extraordinary if they have the right mindset, the right support [00:15:00] people around them, and have the right, or have the capacity and ability to. Nothing significant. We don't achieve anything significant without rolling up our sleeves and getting stuck in. And I wanted to show them that, you know, them the license to dream big and do whatever they, you know, feel they want to do in life. And so that was really the driving force behind the row, and that was the thing that united us all as, as, as a crew of four moms, it was inspiring our children as well as other children and other women to go and, you know, dream big.
Helen Wada: What? fantastic. Achievement. And as you say, it's a, it really is a role modeling, stepping out of your comfort zone. And that's something that we talk about is, and, and just, you know, there's so much in there in terms of stepping out of your comfort zone. And listening to what your gut told you.
'cause I think so often we, we operate in our heads.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: I think [00:16:00] so often it's all about what we think and what we do rather than what we are feeling. And how did you get to that point where you are like, actually my gut tells me that I can do this.
Overcoming Limiting Beliefs
Helen Wada: I. Where, where we all have beliefs, we all have limiting beliefs, and it does take something, you know, and I work with people quite a lot to go, okay, well what does it mean to take a step out?
How'd you get to that uncomfortable piece? And then, and then go beyond that. I'm just curious to understand a bit more. You knew in your gut that that's what you wanted to do?
Felicity Ashley: I think in that instant, I did have quite a strong physical reaction to it. You know, I, I remember clearly picking up the phone and where I was standing at the
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Felicity Ashley: just feeling this kind of wave of heat up and down my spine. As this opportunity kind of was, was offered by my sister and, you know, hands starting to go all clammy as I kind of gripped the phone. [00:17:00] so, so that told me something very strongly that, that it was something that really, you know, lit a fire inside me. it, it was also actually advised from my sister, who is also a coach. And, you know, my, the words that came outta my mouth weren't. Reflective of what I was feeling inside because I said, of course, I can't do it.
You know, I've got three young kids, I can't leave the kids for that long. I'd also just had a hip replacement. So I said, you know, I've just had a hip replacement. You know, o on paper, it was a ridiculous thing to do. But Pip said, stop giving me reasons why you can't, and start giving me reasons why you can. And that was such a simple way of reframing all of these things. And it wasn't about looking for the excuses to say no. It was about looking for my reasons to say yes. so, you know, my situation with my hip, I couldn't have done the row a year before with a dodgy hip, but I had a, you know, a fully functioning hip and I was paying for it.
And, and it wasn't an excuse to say no. It was a reason to say yes. And equally with the children. [00:18:00] They, they weren't gonna stop me doing it. That wasn't a reason to say no, you know, it, there, there was no, no more reason why I couldn't do it than why my husband, husband couldn't do it or why my brother-in-law couldn't do it.
You know, it was just me almost putting excuses in my mouth, if you like. And simply, you know, looking for those reasons to say yes, looking for those reasons why I could do it, enabled me to kind of, you know, shake off those doubts and go. You. I'm the only person standing in my way. I'm the only person that's gonna stop me doing this thing. So if I'm brave enough and can the courage to say yes, then I.
Helen Wada: I love it. I love it and it, and it. Makes me think about, as you say, talk about PIP and, and the coaching and, and what that says to you. But it's that somatic response getting out of our heads and, and stepping forward. And actually in the coaching work that I do, actually encouraging people and I sometimes look at 'em and say, look, we're just [00:19:00] gonna play.
And they look at me.
We work on what the options are and, and what it might look like and feel like to step up out of ourselves and forward. Because I think you are right. You know, very often, and I think this is true with many things, not just rowing at the Atlantic, but actually with potential promotions, making contacts with, with new potential clients, that actually we are getting in the way of ourselves.
And actually the only person that is stopping us moving forward is ourselves. And that's a really valuable lesson for people to think about. What are your limiting beliefs? You know, I work with, when I'm, I'm working with groups, we talk about, you know, we do an exercise on beliefs and we talk what are our beliefs?
And it's hard sometimes to think about what our beliefs actually are [00:20:00] until somebody forces you to write them down.
Felicity Ashley: And so often they're, they're not ev they don't even stem from our beliefs. They're society's beliefs or perceptions and we kind of internalize that. And then there's that conflict between what will other people think of me when actually all that really counts is what we think of ourselves, because that's what we have to live with every minute of every
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Felicity Ashley: what other people are thinking. but I think it does take experience and age and wisdom to kind of appreciate that and understand that, it is hard to step out of your comfort zone, and it is hard to put yourself out there and do something that not many other people are doing and put yourself out and risk judgment. And it probably takes, you know, th the thick skin that comes with age in some ways to do that.
Helen Wada: It's, it's the age, it's the wisdom, but it's also trying things in terms of having a play. So even those words. So I say, I use the words, let's have a play. [00:21:00] Let's play with it. Because actually it then has less significance of, you know, you say the risk of judgment, the risk of failure, but actually if we are just playing, if we're just trying things out, what works?
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And then it's about a process of, well, what happened? What did we learn?
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: What would we, what might we do differently? Before we go again. And that's the sort of the, the resilience piece in terms of our resilience.
The Importance of Purpose and Resilience
Helen Wada: Maybe talk about resilience in a moment because I've no doubt that the resilience, so you've got some stories to tell from across the Atlantic, but you know, we are in a world where we need to keep going and things are shifting around us.
The world is uncertain. We dunno what's gonna happen. So our resilience to keep going to try things that are. Important.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, absolutely. [00:22:00] Absolutely. You mentioned it a little bit earlier as well, but I think also that projecting forward and, and using your imagination, you know, I often ask myself, you know, even now how will I feel if I do something versus how will I feel if I don't do it? And I think that can be really telling as well.
'cause you are putting yourself in that emotional state and you are, you know, for example, with the row imagining what it would feel to cross that line. Versus if I'd said no to Pit, how would I feel watching her do it? You know? And I almost couldn't live with that fomo, you know, that fear of not being in the boat with her. And I think that's a really powerful tool to play with as well, because it really puts you in that emotional state rather than that rational state.
Helen Wada: And. That's a really, again, coming back to our emotions, come back to the, the language of coaching. The language of coaching is not just about questioning, it's not just about listening, but it's actually the deeper view of coaching is actually the somatic piece is tapping into these emotions. And for me, once we [00:23:00] understand that we all have emotions, that we have emotions within ourselves, we can then think about, well, what are the emotions that others are feeling?
What are we noticing about where they're at? How can we as leaders actually embrace that emotion and use it to support individuals achieving their dreams, their ambitions?
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And that for me is what about being human is actually about, it's actually, you know, yes, acknowledging who we are and being authentic, but actually being human is about.
And where they're coming from.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, and you, you know, that's about tapping in almost helping people tap into what their true purpose or their why is. And it, it can be hard to kind of dig beneath the layers and find that, but that's when pe you know, you, you inspire that passion and the emotion comes out when people are doing something that [00:24:00] really connects with their, know, their inner purpose or their inner drivers.
Helen Wada: And, and purpose is a big, I I was talking with a group about this last week, but purpose in itself can be quite a, sort of a, a daunting face. You know, what's your why? Oh, I dunno. What my why. You know, it's, it, it can, it can feel daunting in itself. And so actually I think it's something you are right with, with age and with wisdom, but actually that we explore different things and actually our purpose can be broken down.
Different buckets almost. You know, we don't have to, and I'm gonna stick my hand up here. We don't have to align absolutely everything through the same purpose. You know, I have a purpose around, you know, from a broader perspective, building a more human working world. You know, that's what I'm passionate about, is to see everybody in businesses thrive and the workplaces to be seen in a way [00:25:00] that are.
Actually, yes, I've taken a step out and I'm building a business associated with that. But actually on, on a more granular level, you know, I want to work, I want to add value. I need to earn an income to support myself, my family, and what we want to do. You know? And so there's different levels I think that we can explore that.
And it doesn't always have to happen Within work there, there may be ways in which you can pursue your purpose and. Of business life, and so we don't have to have this full line through everything.
Felicity Ashley: And I think, you know, your purpose can, as you say, it's multifaceted, but it can change over time as well. And
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Felicity Ashley: things that trigger a new purpose, for example. so it's about kind of almost being open to that idea as well that things can change and slightly going with the flow as things change. You know, for example, mark and I talk about my why for the row being my children. Well, that couldn't have been my why [00:26:00] before I had them, you know, so, so becoming a parent, I think for many people gives them a, a new perspective, a new purpose. but then equally with my cancer diagnosis, when I woke up from my surgery, just felt really compelled to share a picture of me looking horrendous with tubes up my nose you know, in a hospital gown versus the picture of me just having finished the, know, looking fit fiddle. The juxtaposition of the two things was so stark to me I felt compelled to share that because in it, it was me kind of generating that awareness that, you know, cancer, it really is indiscriminate can happen to anyone at any point in their lives. And that became almost a new purpose for me is, is spreading that message of awareness because it's so important when it, you know, being aware of symptoms and before. So that was definitely, you know, cancer definitely gave me a new, a new angle on purpose, I think.
Helen Wada: I think you're right. I think the same for me. You know, [00:27:00] when I, when I had my diagnosis with the DCIS, you know, it relatively small, but it was there. It. Ladies, go and get your mammograms.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah,
Helen Wada: You know, the number of people that I was working with said, oh, you know, it's on my to-do list. Well get it off your to-do list
Felicity Ashley: Do it.
Helen Wada: and go and do it.
Because actually, if we don't have our health, then we can't be pursuing our passions and our dreams and our purpose, whatever that may be.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah. Yeah.
Helen Wada: actually, I hope that not everybody has to go through those health challenges to be able to think about, well, what's important to them. I guess, you know, part of the purpose of this conversation is to encourage people to take a step back to think about what's important to them right now.
And it does change, and we need to think about, you know, why, who, who are we?
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And it's not always easy because sometimes we want the hamster wheel and we keep going and going and going. And [00:28:00] I think there's also a lot within, within business, we talk about being human, but, but the owners is actually on us as individuals.
We can't rely on others to create our paths for us. There's too much else going on. And for me, it's about understanding who you are, understanding what it is that you want. And then having the confidence to, as you did, you know, the road, but to step out of your comfort zone and say, this is what I wanna do.
Who's gonna help me to get there? And asking for that support, be it family support to do something that's important to you, be it colleagues at work, you know, be it whatever you choose. But we have to take ownership for setting that goal. And then stepping out of our comfort zone to to go and go after.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, absolutely.
Leadership and Human Connection
Felicity Ashley: Because I think, you know, it's so easy in a working environment for life or work to happen to you [00:29:00] to slightly, you know, I certainly felt that from a working perspective, that I'd slightly lost control of my career because you know, there would be restructures at work, for example, and I'd go with the flow. really stopping to think about whether that was the right thing for me, because know, the path of least resistance is the one we often follow because it's hard to step out of our comfort zone and do something different that people aren't necessarily expecting of us. But it's so important to own those decisions and make sure that. Yes, we can go down that path, but it's the right decision for us to make. And knowing that it is our decision, you know, it, we don't need to be kind of controlled or restricted by, you know, what, whatever our workplace thinks is the right thing for us. Yeah, it's about, it's about taking ownership, taking control, and knowing that, you know, the power is yours to make those decisions.
Helen Wada: Absolutely. And sometimes the place for you is where you are at, you know, in the role that you are in. There's other times where, so actually [00:30:00] I want to do something different. I want to shift. And, and so actually one of my biggest frustrations is, you know, people that sort of complain about where they're at.
It's like, well, okay, who's gonna take responsibility for that? You know? And, and that's when it comes back to, you know, our values, our beliefs, what's important to us. 'cause only once you really understand what's important to you. Can you really make those decisions for yourself in terms of your direction of travel, where you want to be, and are you growing where you are, or is there an alternative out there?
Felicity Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. I always remember some advice from a senior leader in my first kind of employ employer was, was Barclays. And I resigned after about 10 years to go elsewhere. I always remember, you know, having a conversation with one of senior leaders. He said, I'm, you know, gutted to see you go, but I'm delighted to see you go. that for me as a leader is a sign that I'm doing [00:31:00] my job well. That, that people are taking their decisions or are moving on or growing in their careers and doing the things that are. And, and that was such good advice. You know, it's not about, you know, leadership isn't about clinging onto people.
It's about supporting them, lifting them up, and you know, giving them their wings to go wherever it takes them.
Helen Wada: Absolutely. It's, it's encouraging people to fly.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah,
Helen Wada: And, and seeing them fly and seeing what, what happens and, and giving them the support to have the resilience to keep going and explore that. Just exploring that a little bit more. Going back to your vo, going back to the Atlantic and maybe even that, your journey through, through the cancer, but what was it that's given you that resilience, that mindset to keep going because it is a skill.
I think we have to work at.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, I think. I talk about, I suppose three things when I think about, especially mental resilience. One is about [00:32:00] understanding my superpower or finding a superpower.
Helen Wada: Yeah. I love that.
Felicity Ashley: all got a superpower. Everyone's different, not better, not worse, just different. And it's about understanding what makes us each unique and that thing that we can kind of come back to and cling to that that gives us strength. And mine, I call being nails. And that really came from when I was diag to told by my hip surgeon that I needed hip surgery. And at the time I was running for about an hour, so doing fairly, you know, decent distances running. But my hip, he told me that my hip was a hundred percent screwed and that most people couldn't even walk, let alone run.
Now in my head I kind of interpreted that as that means I'm nails, you know, I.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Felicity Ashley: And I took that as my label then. And it's something that I keep coming back to. You know, when I'm faced with any kind of challenge, it's, I think it's okay 'cause I'm nails, I've got this ability to keep going when maybe other people can't or to pick myself up or, you know, to [00:33:00] dig deep.
It's that grit. And so that's definitely something that I think helps, is understanding what makes you unique and what you can lean on to help you through challenging times. And then the second one is around just reframing, you know, there's always a different perspective. Whatever situation you are facing, there's always a different way of looking at it. And sometimes it's as easy as, you know, flipping some words. So instead of, I can't do it, I can't do it yet, or, you know, when talking about my,
Helen Wada: Is such a powerful word, isn't it? It's it.
Felicity Ashley: Yes. Yeah. Take the right steps and you will be able to or in, or when I was, you know, had my cancer diagnosis, it wasn't a case of, you know, thinking, God, why me? was, why not me? You know, because a lot of people thought, well, why? Why you? Because you've, you know, you've read The Atlantic. You are fifth and strong and young. But actually those were all the reasons for thinking in a positive term. Well, why not me? Because I'm [00:34:00] young and strong. I'm better placed than most people get through. And it's that very simple addition of a little three letter word or a twist on words or turning things on the head a bit. can make all the difference, I think, when facing something hard. and then also I think it is about understanding your why. You know, what's your light at the end of the tunnel? What's your reason for keeping going? Because anything significant is gonna have its downs. A understanding that that's gonna happen is really helpful. But b, understanding that thing, you know, the silver lining is for you, that's gonna draw you through those hard times is so important. And that does come back to kind of spending some time to understand what makes you tick and what's gonna help you pick yourself up. So I think those are all things that's kind of, you know, helped me build my resilience and, you know, generally having. A positive. I suppose it's a growth mindset, [00:35:00] really. It's about some kind of inner belief or faith that things will be okay in the end. You know, it might be hard to see that in the moment, in the thick of the storm, but deep down that you will get through it.
Helen Wada: And it's about understanding ourselves, isn't it? I love that superpower analogy that you started with. I, I sometimes encourage people.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah.
Helen Wada: Go and ask a cross section of people that you work with, what is your superpower? And then see how other people view you and, and what do you bring to the table? I think it's a brilliant exercise and it, it really comes back to that sort of the h of the human that I talk about is the how you show up.
Really truly taking time to understand who we're, what's important to us, and so how we can pursue our dreams, pursue our passions. And make a difference wherever that may be. 'cause it'll be different for you. It'll be different for me, it'll be [00:36:00] different for everybody listening
Felicity Ashley: Yep.
Helen Wada: today.
Felicity Ashley: Yeah, and
Not comparing yourselves to other people at all,
Helen Wada: yes,
Felicity Ashley: such a negative thing to do because you're always thinking, well, I can't do that or that, or I'm not as good as them at that or that. But it's actually comparing yourself to yourself and, and, and, you know, being proud of what you can do.
Helen Wada: it comes back to that, that the only person that's stopping us is ultimately ourselves. But I, I do you know what we, we could talk for, for ages, Felicity, I, I can't believe the time the, these conversations flow so much richness and, you know, learning from, from you and from the conversation today.
Final Thoughts and Farewell
Helen Wada: Um, I always like to leave the listeners with a, a couple of things in terms of a tip, and then a good coach loves a good question, but if you were talking back to some of your previous employers.
Experienced what you've experienced since you've you've left. What words of wisdom would you give them in terms of how to be more human [00:37:00] at work, would be the first question.
Felicity Ashley: So I think, you know, starting broad, I think it's taking the time to understand the people around you. The people that you need to kind of, you know, help you achieve your goals, whatever they might be. And then narrowing it down slightly, everyone's gonna go through, you know, the highs and the lows and the ups and the downs, and they're gonna face struggles. And it's about understanding what you can do as a leader or as a colleague to help lift the people around you up. And it's gonna be different for every individual. You know, we are all different and we respond to different things. So it's about literally taking the time to ask to find out, when you are having a bad day, what can I do for you?
And it might be as simple as making 'em a cup of tea or a coffee. It might be knowing what coffee they have and going and getting them. One, be taking them outside for a walk. You know, it's so important to understand what you do to give. It's those small gestures that I [00:38:00] think make the biggest impact because it's those things that make people feel valued and heard and understood, and will make people go to the ends of the earth for you and go the extra mile. But they're so often overlooked.
Helen Wada: I think that's true and I think, you know, I would add that you can extend that to other relationships with other stakeholders. With clients. You know, I talk about understand others, it's the you and the human, but. I, the world is competitive these days. People choose to work with people where they feel that sense of connection, where they've got that trust and that, and that you care.
And that's what it comes down to is like, do you care about them as a human being, not just a transaction to maybe, you know, deliver a project or win a new contract.
Felicity Ashley: When it's done. Yeah.
Helen Wada: When, you know, we are a collection of human beings. No, I think that's, I think that's brilliant and I think [00:39:00] it's really one that we need to, to keep reinforcing the message around as, as we build a more human working world.
What about a question? I love a question because questions get us to think and I think, you know, we've talked about getting people to think for themselves. Question, would you encourage the listeners to reflect on.
Felicity Ashley: So this is based on, I suppose, the understanding that to get the best outta the people around you, you need to give the best of yourself too. And so the question would be, bringing your true self to work or to any relationship? You know, because generate that understanding, you need to give people license to be open with you. And to do that, you need to be open with them. And it's not about leaving all of your personal life at the door when you walk into the office. It's about bringing that with you and leading by example and showing that it's, it's [00:40:00] okay for people to do that because that's how you're gonna create that understanding and that trust and that, you know, sense and, and you know, environment of care, I think. it's making sure that as a leader you are showing up in the right way and you're bringing your whole self to work. Not just this, almost this facade of what you think you ought to be, be presenting as a leader.
Helen Wada: Great question and you know. If you're listening today and, and you're reflecting on that, you know, do I bring myself true self to work? You know, pick up a pencil, pick up a pen, and just spend a couple of minutes writing what you think of in, in response to that. Because sometimes either talking it out loud or writing it down can really help us to, to think a bit more about who we are and how we show up.
Fantastic conversation. Felicity, thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Felicity Ashley: Loved.
Helen Wada: that's been been brilliant. Where can people find you? You, you know, a motivational speaker, a [00:41:00] mariner telling your story far and wide, but how can people find you?
Felicity Ashley: Well, I have a website, which is I'm on LinkedIn. I'm, so there's content. And very soon I will be a published author too. So in July I'll be publishing my forthcoming book which I think will be called Stronger than the.
Helen Wada: I love it Stronger than the storm. I think that's can't wait to read it. Can't wait to how, how are you getting on with the, how are you getting on with the editing?
Felicity Ashley: It's good. Do you know what? I've really enjoyed it. I found it quite a cathartic experience doing the writing. It's, you know, it's a big project, but much like any challenge, it's about breaking it down into chunks and yeah, keeping pushing forward. But yeah, so far so good.
Helen Wada: Excellent. Well, best of luck with it. Can't wait to read it and lovely to have you on the show.
Felicity Ashley: Thanks very much Helen. Lovely to
Helen Wada: you soon.
Felicity Ashley: Bye.